Some general musings...*Spoilers.*

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Reborn from the Ashes
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Some general musings...*Spoilers.*

Post by Reborn from the Ashes »

This is a topic to post any little questions that might have arisen in your mind when playing Snatcher. Some of mine aren't 100% serious. 8-[

In Act Three Jamie asks Gillian if he caused the Catastrophe, bearing in mind what the Snatcher project involved, (mass homicide as well as replacing enemy nation rulers with Snatchers), would Gillian really have gone that far to sabotage the Project?

Just before Metal leaves Gillian in the Kremlin, he tells Gillian that if their legal privileges are suspended, he'd be forced to restrain Gillian, how was he going to do that?

If Petrovich Modnar made Random without Elijah's knowledge, how and when did Elijah find out about Random?

Carrying on in that line of thought, why were Jamie and Elijah assigned to the skin development if Petrovich was so knowledgable about it?

If Random has all Elijah's memories, how old was he supposed to be, and did he know anything about Petrovich's whereabouts?

Did Random kill Elijah before the beam came down? We only hear one person scream, judging by how young the voice sounds, it's Random.

Did Random ever suspect at all that he was not human?

In Queen's hospital, Chin says they had found a way to perfect the skin, did Chin know about Random?

Why does Mika ask Gillian if Jamie's his wife when he calls her in front of Mika if they're so close?

Why is it only male characters who die during the course of game. :P Lisa's already dead when the game starts.

Sorry these are so long. :(
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Re: Some general musings...*Spoilers.*

Post by Crowley »

You're being overtly critical. That wasn't long at all.
Reborn from the Ashes wrote:In Act Three Jamie asks Gillian if he caused the Catastrophe, bearing in mind what the Snatcher project involved, (mass homicide as well as replacing enemy nation rulers with Snatchers), would Gillian really have gone that far to sabotage the Project?
That's very hard to say considering we never really see what the 'real' Gillian who has all his memories is like.
Just before Metal leaves Gillian in the Kremlin, he tells Gillian that if their legal privileges are suspended, he'd be forced to restrain Gillian, how was he going to do that?
Maybe it's something like in Kafka's trial. "Gillian, I'm officially placing you under arrest." "That's nice." *Gillian walks out the door*.
If Petrovich Modnar made Random without Elijah's knowledge, how and when did Elijah find out about Random?
I think that wasn't until Random fell to his hands in the hospital.
Did Random kill Elijah before the beam came down? We only hear one person scream, judging by how young the voice sounds, it's Random.
Considering the site was pretty much disintegrated, does that really matter? Still, if Random decided to snap Elijah's neck he wouldn't have time to scream. On the other hand, if Elijah was still alive when the beam came down, I can't tell if he would have time to scream even then. Hey, maybe he couldn't even scream very audibly with such a frail physique.
Did Random ever suspect at all that he was not human?
I think he knew all along. I guess that ties in with having Elijah's memories. In the end he didn't seem to be in any way disturbed about the fact that he was obviously a snatcher. Thinking from Petrovich's point of view, it would probably be safer to have Random be aware from the beginning that he's a snatcher. In such a hazardous line of work he'd unavoidably get banged hard enough to make him realize his endurance is more than human. Major psychological minefield.
In Queen's hospital, Chin says they had found a way to perfect the skin, did Chin know about Random?
I don't think so. Come to think of it, if they were aware of Random, wouldn't the snatchers be actively trying to hunt him down?
Why is it only male characters who die during the course of game. :P Lisa's already dead when the game starts.
Vast majority of the people working on the game were men. Who would you rather see dead: nasty old men or nice hot women?
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Post by Artemio »

I love having you guys around, this makes this place a lot better (and my life less boring)

ok, let's start.. (Although Crowley already made a great work answering, I'll just add stuff)
Reborn from the Ashes wrote:In Act Three Jamie asks Gillian if he caused the Catastrophe, bearing in mind what the Snatcher project involved, (mass homicide as well as replacing enemy nation rulers with Snatchers), would Gillian really have gone that far to sabotage the Project?
As Crowley says, we don't know. given the tone of voice Jaime uses, we can assume that he wouldn't from Jaimie's perspective (and she is asking after all). But I believe such lines are simply there to make us doubt it at that point in the game.. theer is littl etime to try and make it sink in though, so it looses a lot. But at that precise moment we don't even know about Elijah but for the painting (we could say that we don't know who the bad guy is at all, and it *could* be Gillian).

Reborn from the Ashes wrote:Carrying on in that line of thought, why were Jamie and Elijah assigned to the skin development if Petrovich was so knowledgable about it?
Hey he was Dr. Petrovich (Metal Gear fame!), how dare you question his genius?!?! Well seriously though (at least a bit more seriously given the context), he was in charge of the project. When a person is in charge of something like that, he has to be knowledgeable in every field that it involves... otherwise the person cannot direct the project and make proper decisions.

Reborn from the Ashes wrote:In Queen's hospital, Chin says they had found a way to perfect the skin, did Chin know about Random?
I've always believed he is simply talking about having Dr. Lorraine involved in the project now (or about to be). He doesn't have to know all. (Although I love the facts that Cunninham and Chen do spill out the beans just like in any Bond movie)
Reborn from the Ashes wrote:Did Random ever suspect at all that he was not human?
It is eitehr as Crowley says, or he is a very tough guy that was playing dead while listening to Elijah, Gillian and Jaimie, adding it all up together and finally comming to a very impressive desicion on a very short time about what to do and what needs to be sacrificied.
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Re: Some general musings...*Spoilers.*

Post by Teflon »

If Random has all Elijah's memories, how old was he supposed to be, and did he know anything about Petrovich's whereabouts?
I'd assume that Petrovich replaced all instances of him appearing in the memories with somebody else as some sort of safety measure.
In Queen's hospital, Chin says they had found a way to perfect the skin, did Chin know about Random?
I recall Elijah saying that Petrovich had already created a sample of the perfected skin just before capturing Random's body, but that could be me just interpreting things wrong.
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Re: Some general musings...*Spoilers.*

Post by Teflon »

whoops sorry
Last edited by Teflon on Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some general musings...*Spoilers.*

Post by Reborn from the Ashes »

Crowley wrote:You're being overtly critical. That wasn't long at all.
I usually am when I'm referring to something I've done. :(
Reborn from the Ashes wrote:Did Random kill Elijah before the beam came down? We only hear one person scream, judging by how young the voice sounds, it's Random.
Crowley wrote:Considering the site was pretty much disintegrated, does that really matter? Still, if Random decided to snap Elijah's neck he wouldn't have time to scream. On the other hand, if Elijah was still alive when the beam came down, I can't tell if he would have time to scream even then. Hey, maybe he couldn't even scream very audibly with such a frail physique.
It doesn't really matter, I just would have liked to know, given Random's line about finally getting his real self back after snatching Elijah. I think I would have preferred it if Random had killed Elijah, but considering how much time there was between Gillian and Jamie escaping and the beam coming down, I would have assume that Random didn't kill Elijah, especially as he protected Metal Gear's memory chip.
Reborn from the Ashes wrote:Did Random ever suspect at all that he was not human?
Crowley wrote:I think he knew all along. I guess that ties in with having Elijah's memories. In the end he didn't seem to be in any way disturbed about the fact that he was obviously a snatcher. Thinking from Petrovich's point of view, it would probably be safer to have Random be aware from the beginning that he's a snatcher. In such a hazardous line of work he'd unavoidably get banged hard enough to make him realize his endurance is more than human. Major psychological minefield.
Elijah does say that Random believed himself to be human, although that doesn't automatically mean it's the truth.
Reborn from the Ashes wrote:Why is it only male characters who die during the course of game. :P Lisa's already dead when the game starts.
Crowley wrote:Vast majority of the people working on the game were men. Who would you rather see dead: nasty old men or nice hot women?
Difficult question for me to answer, given that I'm female. :)
Snatcher wrote:Hey, he was Dr. Petrovich, how dare you question his genius?!?!
I'm sorry. Image

A couple of other questions:

If the cryogenic pods were there in case of an accident, why were the only three?

If Elijah was in that room all that time, how did he get the vaccine and food and water?
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Re: Some general musings...*Spoilers.*

Post by Artemio »

Reborn from the Ashes wrote:Did Random kill Elijah before the beam came down? We only hear one person scream, judging by how young the voice sounds, it's Random.
My guess is that he didn't. And in some way, I prefer it that way. It allows Random to be a more human than Elijah, I'd assume that in the inverse situation he'd surely kill Random.
Snatcher wrote:Hey, he was Dr. Petrovich, how dare you question his genius?!?!
Reborn from the Ashes wrote: I'm sorry. Image
It was supposed to be just teasing =P (with a bit of serousness in the context)
Reborn from the Ashes wrote: If the cryogenic pods were there in case of an accident, why were the only three?
Either convenience for the art department in charge for the game, or the storyboard showed only three. In such case it would be awefuly convenient, wouldn't it? It guess it was simply either lazyness or lack of consistency checking. We also must take into account that this part of the game was not in the original, and was redone. Also we'll probably never know all the details that had to be changed in the ending due to the errors in the voice recording sessions of the origianl PCE release, though I know some of them were corrected in the Sega/mega CD release.

You'd do a great job as director or assistant doirector for this kind of matters, I'd love to play a game that you checked (although I kind of feel a bit bad that my favourite game has more holes than a piece of cheese, but hey, I can take it)
Reborn from the Ashes wrote: If Elijah was in that room all that time, how did he get the vaccine and food and water?
About food and water, if it was supposed to be a shelter those can be taken for granted. But the vaccine, well, that would be a completely different matter. You could suppose that, since teher was a satellite link, information could be accessed from taht point (after all he was woken up by that). He could have gotten the formula from that network of information, and simply developed it with the ersources available in the facilities, given that he was really close to labs and had access to a lot of resources from the Kremlin's research labs.
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Re: Some general musings...*Spoilers.*

Post by Reborn from the Ashes »

Reborn from the Ashes wrote: I'm sorry. Image
Snatcher wrote:It was supposed to be just teasing =P (with a bit of serousness in the context)
I know. :grin:
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Post by Reborn from the Ashes »

Couple more questions:

How was Elijah going to escape from Neo Kobe if it was nuked? He must have already known that the delegates were thinking about the possiblity of using nukes, and he didn't seem surprised when Metal tells Gillian that Neo Kobe was going to be nuked.

Also, look at how old Elijah is, how many more years would he have had to live? Did he ever think about that, or was he too caught up his plan to Snatch the worlds rulers?

What was the mistake Elijah made? He said that Gillian and Jamie were found and taken in custody as a result of a mistake he made, and if he decided he needed Jamie's help before she was revived, why did it take him three years to find her?
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Post by Artemio »

Reborn from the Ashes wrote: How was Elijah going to escape from Neo Kobe if it was nuked? He must have already known that the delegates were thinking about the possiblity of using nukes, and he didn't seem surprised when Metal tells Gillian that Neo Kobe was going to be nuked.
My take on that is that he didn't know about it (and could do little in that given situation). I've also thought that it didn't matter to him to die on the spot as long as the plan was already in motion, since his goals were "bigger" than himself (It is always a matter of beliefs, isn't it?). I stronly believe that he didn't want to die, specially because of what he tells Random before the strike from the Satellite.

Anyway, unless he didn't know about the possibility, or his escape was frustrated by the events that unfolded (a possibility we are not even hinted at) it would be a big plot hole.

Reborn from the Ashes wrote: Also, look at how old Elijah is, how many more years would he have had to live? Did he ever think about that, or was he too caught up his plan to Snatch the worlds rulers?
Well, his father managed quite an age there... so he might have expected to last as long. But anyway, I simply believe (as I stated above) that most probably his idelas were ahead of his own life, and he firmly believed that those goals would trancend him.
Reborn from the Ashes wrote: What was the mistake Elijah made? He said that Gillian and Jamie were found and taken in custody as a result of a mistake he made, and if he decided he needed Jamie's help before she was revived, why did it take him three years to find her?
There I would have no idea, and I guess there is no way to tell (And although I've believed that there might be tons of info on all those Japanese material books, and I someday will be able to read most of them, probably there is no answer there anyway)

I can only guess that he is referring to some kind of miscalculation while trying to Snatch the 17th squad or in lettng them escape by attempting something. Who knows.

Anyway, I love your questions on these matters. (And I love your avatar ^^). It is refershing to get the kind of conversations that I couldn't have for ten years or so ...
From the mathematical perspective, consciousness might be regarded as a second derivative of sensation.
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