Page 1 of 1

MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:46 pm
by A.G.
OK, let’s get this out in the open. Let’s look at all the actual facts and get it straight. During MGS2, was Ocelot actually possessed by Liquid’s will or was it all an act?

> During the “Get out of my mind, Liquid!” line in the Tanker BOTH voices are heard at the SAME TIME.

> The Database states that Ocelot “began acting like he was possessed”. That does NOT fully prove that he wasn’t.

> A lot of places do say it was an act, but they never say it was an act during MGS2.

> Ocelot removed Liquid’s arm because it threw his psyche out of whack. Why would he do that? How can you say that Liquid didn’t actually posses Ocelot if his Psyche was affected. Ocelot chose to craft a prosthetic to insure that it doesn’t happen. Well, if it was an act, like one part of the Database states, then why was his psyche affected so much (as another part of the Database states)?

My Understanding

When Ocelot was in close contact with Snake, Liquid’s will DID in fact take over. Hence you hear the voice of Liquid Snake, and even at the same time as Ocelot’s. MGS2 clearly shows that it was not something that Ocelot had control of. Now, his reasoning to crafting the arm makes sense to the overall objective, using Liquid’s DNA to somehow fool the system. But I do believe the whole plot didn’t start until the end of the Big Shell incident. Liquid took over and took off in RAY to destroy the <B>Patriots</B>. That was legit. So Ocelot used that as an opening. But he had to make sure that it was Liquid all the time, not just when Snake is around. Hence the removal of the arm and the psychotherapy. Now he can be Liquid at all times and truly fool the system.

That is the ONLY logical explanation for all this. MGS2 Liquid was actually Liquid and it was a legit possession. I don’t know why the Database only partially confirms that instead of stating it outright.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:59 pm
by seraphssavior
They way I understand it, Ocelot WAS possessed in MGS2. Kojima didn't know how the MGS story was going to end at that point, and retconned it in 4. That's what I've seen, but I'm not exactly sure.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:48 pm
by cacetete
seraphssavior wrote:They way I understand it, Ocelot WAS possessed in MGS2. Kojima didn't know how the MGS story was going to end at that point, and retconned it in 4. That's what I've seen, but I'm not exactly sure.
Thats it, kojima always retcons. Somebody told him the arm possessing Ocelot was too silly and he changed that.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:24 pm
by A.G.
The point is that there is no official statement that completely retcons the notion that the possession was real in MGS2. The fact that you hear both voices at the same time and that it threw Ocelot's psyche out of whack forcing him to switch to a prosthetic.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:14 am
by Commander_AK-47
The way it was in MGS4 was that he was hypnotized to act like Liquid in MGS2. He was never actually possessed it was self-hypnotization. It wasn't like that in MGS2 but according to MGS4 thats the way it was. Kojima came up with that sometime between MGS2 and MGS4.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:31 am
by A.G.
Where does it say that he wasn't possessed in MGS2? Where, specificially, in MGS4 it states that? And don't say that's what Big Boss says, because that's not it.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:06 pm
by Henry Spencer
I asked the same question on The Snake Soup and one of the guys was convinced that Liquid was in possession of Ocelot during the events of MGS2. He used the Database as evidence of this.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:39 pm
by cacetete
A.G. wrote:Where does it say that he wasn't possessed in MGS2? Where, specificially, in MGS4 it states that? And don't say that's what Big Boss says, because that's not it.
thats what big boss says, unfortunately.
the database was made after mgs2, then that doesnt matter, they can say anything they want.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:22 pm
by A.G.
thats what big boss says, unfortunately.
No, he doesn't. I would recomend that you replay the ending or look it up on YouTube. He does say that Ocelot used drugs and hypnotherapy to trasform into Liquid but he does NOT say that it was right after Shadow Moses.
the database was made after mgs2, then that doesnt matter, they can say anything they want.
The Database doesn't actually contradict this either. It's left rather vague. In fact, it does state that Liquid's arm that housed his "will" threw Ocelot's Psyche out of whack. That means the possession was real. Otherwise why would he switch to the prosthetic if the possession was an act?

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:42 pm
by Dick Motorman
it's just one giant retconned mess.

Re: MGS4 Spoiler - Liquid in MGS2?!

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:19 pm
by cacetete
Dick Motorman wrote:it's just one giant retconned mess.
thats what im saying.
but
the truth is

ocelots hand gesture from mgs3

kojima COPIED that from annie lennox in the sweet dreams video from 1983. :P
look at 2:40.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHrspjw ... re=related