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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:16 pm
by ratperson665
Getting back on the topic I would have to say some games are art and some are not art. Let's take a look at "Killer 7". Any game that can have the most unsatisfying and boring gameplay in the world and be a true masterpiece thanks to it's thought-provoking plot, brilliant characters, amazing visuals, fantastic climax and more gore and swearing than a Mickey Roark fan magazine is art in my book.

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:33 am
by 87th
I wouldn't call killer7's gameplay boring at all. The lack of freedom makes for some incredibly tense moments when surrounded. System complements the environments and the wonderful bosses brilliantly.

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:19 pm
by OtakupunkX
ratperson665 wrote:Getting back on the topic I would have to say some games are art and some are not art.
That's like saying that some paintings are art and some are not art.

Art is art is art is art is art is art.

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:35 pm
by ratperson665
OtakupunkX wrote:
ratperson665 wrote:Getting back on the topic I would have to say some games are art and some are not art.
That's like saying that some paintings are art and some are not art.

Art is art is art is art is art is art.
What I meant to say was games like "Killer 7" ARE art and games like “Manhunt” and “GTA” ARE NOT art.

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:16 pm
by Missing
Snatcher wrote:
ratperson665 wrote:I misspeled that on peropse. In order to seem casual, everone on evrey forum has done this at least once.
That only makes people look stupid when done on purpose. (Need of attention)
Perhaps, but often times covering up your true nature by acting the fool is another way of being smart. And I can attest that it certainly helps to loosen up the stuffy air around here.

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:22 pm
by Missing
OtakupunkX wrote:That's like saying that some paintings are art and some are not art.

Art is art is art is art is art is art.
Is art what you do or how you do it? Is it skill or passion? Or all of the above? If I paint with my butt cheeks, have I created 'art' or have I just slapped paint on a canvas with my butt cheeks?

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:47 pm
by ratperson665
Missing wrote:
OtakupunkX wrote:That's like saying that some paintings are art and some are not art.

Art is art is art is art is art is art.
Is art what you do or how you do it? Is it skill or passion? Or all of the above? If I paint with my butt cheeks, have I created 'art' or have I just slapped paint on a canvas with my butt cheeks?
The latter.

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:31 am
by OtakupunkX
Basically, if someone could get value out of your cheeky painting then it is art, and one of the great things about humanity is that people can find meaning in anything.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:06 am
by ratperson665
Well not all movies are art either. The following films are art:

Blade Runner

V for vendetta

Sin City
.

I hate to bring the up again but this best example of a non-art film that I can think of is Ichi the killer. It was nothing but a vehicle for Takashi Miike to act out his own disgusting sexual fantasies, and if you ask me that isn’t art!

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:02 am
by Artemio
I am sure you won¿'t find those under "Art Cinema" at any shop though =)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:18 am
by ratperson665
Snatcher wrote:I am sure you won¿'t find those under "Art Cinema" at any shop though =)
No, but there still art. V for vendetta for lashing out against fascism and oppressive governments, I don't need to tell you why Blade Runner is art and Sin City is art because of it's stunning use of black and white with splashes of color.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:49 am
by Artemio
The Ichi the Killer is art for it's disturbing nature, and the portrayal of a sick individual.

You, yourself are saying it is completely subjective.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:59 pm
by ratperson665
Snatcher wrote:The Ichi the Killer is art for it's disturbing nature, and the portrayal of a sick individual.
So let me get this straight. When you here the words "sadism", "fetishism" or "masochism" you think "art"?

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:07 pm
by Rick Deckard
A person's obviously not going to jump straight to 'art' after being fed those terms, but I don't see why all art would exclude that sort of stuff. I don't know how you could argue it's not art, it's a film. What are you saying, it's not arty?

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:21 pm
by ratperson665
I can't call that movie art, and anyone who can ought to have his head examined!

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:29 pm
by Artemio
Man, you never catch on irony, sarcasm or any other sort. But anyway, by the same reasons you are exposing, you can be judged when talking about Sin City or any otehr example. Just show it to the right people and someone will jump at the scenes shown there. Just tell them it is about ripping genitals, vengeance and prostitues, but in cartioon fashion, and see what you'll get. Try thinking a little, please, and maybe being a little less self centered might help you in your life.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:57 pm
by ratperson665
Snatcher wrote:Man, you never catch on irony, sarcasm or any other sort. But anyway, by the same reasons you are exposing, you can be judged when talking about Sin City or any otehr example. Just show it to the right people and someone will jump at the scenes shown there. Just tell them it is about ripping genitals, vengeance and prostitues, but in cartioon fashion, and see what you'll get. Try thinking a little, please, and maybe being a little less self centered might help you in your life.


It's not the violence in Ichi that I have trouble with, it’s the sexual perversion. I guess it might bug me a little less if Kakihara was the villain but since you’re supposed to route for him it makes it all the more disturbing.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:01 pm
by Artemio
The problem might be the Hollywood misconception that you have to root for the main character. Not all stories are that way. And not only stories that are that way are worth to be told. I am in no way defending Ichi, I barely recall the movie. But I don't see why you have to go out of your way with rtaht opinion all over the board =), we all know it already.

The thing is, stating such opinions as facts, serves no purpose and stablishes nothing.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:09 pm
by ratperson665
Snatcher wrote:The problem might be the Hollywood misconception that you have to root for the main character. Not all stories are that way. And not only stories that are that way are worth to be told. I am in no way defending Ichi, I barely recall the movie. But I don't see why you have to go out of your way with rtaht opinion all over the board =), we all know it already.

The thing is, stating such opinions as facts, serves no purpose and stablishes nothing.
I guess your right Artemio. Getting back to the topic I believe that video games can be art, and the best example that I can think of is my favorite Hideo Kojima game: Policenauts .

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:30 am
by OtakupunkX
This thread is just going around and around in circles. Interesting circles, but circles nonetheless.

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:45 am
by Marc
ratperson665 wrote: I guess your right Artemio. Getting back to the topic I believe that video games can be art, and the best example that I can think of is my favorite Hideo Kojima game: Policenauts .
Oh my God. We actually agree on something. This can't be a good sign. I'm probably gonna get arrested tomorrow or something.

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:32 am
by ratperson665
OtakupunkX wrote:This thread is just going around and around in circles. Interesting circles, but circles nonetheless.
Agreed.

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:52 am
by OtakupunkX
ratperson665 wrote:
OtakupunkX wrote:This thread is just going around and around in circles. Interesting circles, but circles nonetheless.
Agreed.
But you're the reason it keeps going around in circles!

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:24 am
by randomwab
OtakupunkX wrote:
ratperson665 wrote:
OtakupunkX wrote:This thread is just going around and around in circles. Interesting circles, but circles nonetheless.
Agreed.
But you're the reason it keeps going around in circles!
This thread is based on opinion. I have mine, ratperson has his, Snatcher has his and so on. The topic is probably not going to change what people think.

For example, I think games CAN be art, but there is yet to be a game to be classed like this. Most of the games posted which people have tried to say are art are not in my opinion. Games like Policenauts, Snatcher, Metal Gear, Silent Hill, killer7, Another World, Fahrenheit and so on are not art, they are cinematic. Just because a game uses an art style (Policenauts) does not mean it is infact art. Even some of the films mentioned are not what I call art. I wouldn't say V for Vendetta was art because it had political views, or Sin City was because it used an art style.

However, I believe in the future games can be art, but not until games settle apon a point when graphics do not matter, and it is much easier for ametuer games to be recognised. When graphics do not matter, and more independent games can be seen, that is when I believe games can become art as developers can begin focusing on what can make a game a piece of art.

Again, this is just my opinion, and i'm sure someone will come and try and shoot it down, but they won't change my opinion.

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:11 pm
by ratperson665
randomwab wrote:I wouldn't say V for Vendetta was art because it had political views, or Sin City was because it used an art style.
Your just bad-mouthing Sin City and V for vendetta because you know there two of my favorite movies.