Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

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A.G.
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Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by A.G. »

You know, I loved ACT 1 and ACT 2. I truly did. Nice story, nice plot twists... with the exception of the shooting scene in the vent shaft, it was damn near perfect. And the final battle with Snatcher Cunningham was very clever.

What was the point of ACT 3? Yes, it added some plot, but there was practically no gameplay and what gameplay there was didn't really pan out well. Just mindless shooting. What worse is that ACT 3 didn't even conclude the story as Gillian still had to go to Moscow to deal with the factory. So ACT 3 was just as unresolved as ACT 2!

I don't understand why Kojima put that in given how lackluster it was. Reminds of the ending of MGS2, actually. Practically no gameplay, a rush job of explaining a complex story, and an unresolved ending.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by teddykrueger »

personally, one of the most satisfying ends in a videogame =) i just sat there (first time i finished it) in complete awe of how videogames should fucking be^^
seriously snatcher in my opinion is flawless.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by The Hero »

The first time I played through Snatcher (like most of the members here, I've played through it many times), I was a little dissapointed over the short length of Act 3, compared to the other two, but later on I really started to love it. It's such a great ending in so many ways; it's long, it has twists, it wraps everything up and still leaves a little something to ponder over.

Besides, we should be lucky Act 3 excists. If I'm not mistaken, didn't the original msx2 and PC-88 versions of the game end after Act 2? If the Sega CD and the other versions had ended at Act 2, now THAT would have been a dissapointing ending. But as I said, I'm not 100% sure about the MSX2 PC-88 Act 2 ending situation. Does anyone know more?
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by A.G. »

Why is bad writing and/or presentation so frequently hailed as genius? Act 3 does not really deliver. You get a character, the mastermind behind the whole thing, and his screen time is practically nothing! All this time of solving a mystery, and for what? Act 3 basically takes a big piss on the importance of Acts 1 and 2. "BTW, the whole Hospital investigation... never mind! Not important because it's just a pawn with many others like it!" So you spend all of long Acts 1 and 2 investigating, and in the end it all pales in comparison to the "plot twist" in Act 3. And as a game, Act 3 sucks. You do NOTHING. A useless shooting scene, and that's it. The worst part is that you actually get an unresolved ending. How is ending of ACT 3 any different from ACT 2? Here, compare the two:

1. Gillian STILL does not have his memory.
2. The Snatcher threat is still not over.
3. Gillian STILL has to go somewhere to deal with Snatchers.

Wow... in fact, the only difference is that Act 2 actually ended really well, in a dramatic fight scene and a touch death scene. Act 3... lol What did it have? Randam getting killed while saving Gillian... AGAIN! Gimme a break!

Snatcher is "flawless"? Please! That's a very silly notion. Act 3 was very rushed IMO and did not add anything positive to the Snatch experience. In fact, I really liked the game at the end of Act 2. After Act 3... I can't say I'm a huge fan. Because it was so much shorter and had such rushed way of presenting plot points the define the entire story, it kills it. If Act 3 was made on par with Acts 1 and 2... yes, the game would be a work of art. But the way Act 3 turned out... sorry.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by The Spoony Hou »

Yeah, Act 3 sucks. Thankfully, I played the MSX version first and got only the good stuff (with the better opening and ending songs, even).

It would be much better if Kojima got to make Snatcher 2 soon after finishing the original game.

Damn that Snake's Revenge guy, giving him the idea of making Metal Gear 2 :(.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by A.G. »

Damn that Snake's Revenge guy, giving him the idea of making Metal Gear 2 .
Metal Gear 2 > Snatcher

Snatcher would not work too well as a series. When the unknown is explained the luster is gone. Cough! Cough! <B>Patriots</B>! Cough! And you can't make it a series without doing that.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by teddykrueger »

Snatcher is "flawless"? Please! That's a very silly notion. Act 3 was very rushed IMO and did not add anything positive to the Snatch experience. In fact, I really liked the game at the end of Act 2. After Act 3... I can't say I'm a huge fan. Because it was so much shorter and had such rushed way of presenting plot points the define the entire story, it kills it. If Act 3 was made on par with Acts 1 and 2... yes, the game would be a work of art. But the way Act 3 turned out... sorry.[/quote]

well, to each his own right?
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by A.G. »

well, to each his own right?
Yes, but facts are facts too. I love MGS1, but I will never say the game is flawless. Fanboism is fine, as long as it doesn't cloud clear judgement. Snatcher, especially Act 3, is hardly flawless from an objective point of view.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by The Spoony Hou »

A.G. wrote:Metal Gear 2 > Snatcher
Well, MG22 is the best MG I played (only played the series till MGS), but I'd prefer more graphic adventures than "stealth action" games.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by Henry Spencer »

Yay.

It's a far better ending than what we got for the MGS series (MGS4).
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by JimboKudo »

I have to play through it again I guess, but the first time I beat the game, I thought that the ending, although a bit rushed, was still good. They did throw in a new character at very short notice, but they also made Randam Hajile a more key character. Before the ending, Randam is kind of an underdeveloped element in the storyline.

I was satisfied with the ending when I played through it. Also, AG, you said that you don't even really like adventure/investigation games (in your snatcher review). This isn't a game for some Halo frat boy, it's a story-driven interactive novel. Some people just aren't into that sort of thing.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by A.G. »

This isn't a game for some Halo frat boy
And what makes you think I'm a Halo fan? Further more, I've played story driven games that left a MUCH better impression on me from a gameplay perspective. Full Throttle for example is a much better designed story game. The plot obviously isn't as complex as a Kojima game, but the gameplay is FAR better.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by Project_Noah »

teddykrueger wrote: well, to each his own right?
Agreed. No game is "flawless" but after I had 5 heart attacks during those last shooting sequences, the ending made me feel so relieved. Sure, there's still unanswered questions, but I think it's better for a game to end that way, because it doesn't really "end" The story goes on, and therefore, we can make our own assumptions and theories. It lives on. Snatcher is a masterpiece.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by el_ash »

well I thought that Act 3 definatly was short, and lacked gameplay....
But the ending and warp-up of the story (for the most part) made it the BEST ending I had ever seen/experienced in a game!

Especially considering most games in general only gave you a "thank you for playing" message and then rolled the credits.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by JimboKudo »

A.G. wrote:
This isn't a game for some Halo frat boy
And what makes you think I'm a Halo fan? Further more, I've played story driven games that left a MUCH better impression on me from a gameplay perspective. Full Throttle for example is a much better designed story game. The plot obviously isn't as complex as a Kojima game, but the gameplay is FAR better.
I'm just saying that the gameplay in this isn't for everyone. There's a reason that the game is considered a work of interactive fiction/interactive graphic novel. It's much more like a book than anything else, and someone who doesn't have that mindset going in might end up disliking it.

As far as Full Throttle goes, that's an ADVENTURE game. the puzzles in it are quite different from the very few that exist in Snatcher. Also, as a big adventure game fan, Full Throttle was just okay. You definitely can't say that it had a complicated storyline, and, while it did have some very interesting gameplay in it, it wasn't all that spectacular. Go back and play Day of the Tentacle and the Monkey Island series, THEN tell me whether or not Full Throttle is brilliant. Honestly.

Oh, and the real reason that I think you're a Halo fan is that you are using the EXACT points almost word for word that just about every Halo-loving friend of mine has used in the past :mrgreen:
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by XenoMorph »

Act 3 felt rushed. It was still good enough in my opinion, but they could have done so much more with that part of the game. It practically reeks of unlived potential. Think how much more those things Modnar said would have impacted you if they hadn't come at a 1 key-plot-element-per-minute speed.

Still, Snatcher = Epic.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by Kerm »

el_ash wrote:well I thought that Act 3 definatly was short, and lacked gameplay....
But the ending and warp-up of the story (for the most part) made it the BEST ending I had ever seen/experienced in a game!

Especially considering most games in general only gave you a "thank you for playing" message and then rolled the credits.
This is pretty much how I feel about act 3 too. Except I don't think it's the best ending ever, but still a very satisfaying ending.
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by The Chosen »

I can see where A.G is coming from. Act 3 does feel a bit tacked on. I would have been happily satisfied with the game ending with Act 2. Hell I should be in bed right now! I only stayed up because I thought after I'd killed the Chief the game would end. The thing about Act 3, it complicates things, the plot devices, the questions it answers all seem to be created in Act 3 itself. Most of the questions I had in Act 1 and 2 were answered within those two acts. Act 3 seemed to create questions which didn't need to be asked or answered (Gillian's past wasn't really an issue in Act 1 or 2 other than to create an air of mystery about the character, Elijah Madnar wasn't mentioned until Act 3 (was he?)).

Overall I loved the game, but I can see where A.G is coming from. The pace of the story in Act 3 just accelerated extraordinarily. In the first two acts pieces of the story are unravelled at steady pace as you progress, but in Act 3 as someone said above it's a key plot device every minute, so that threw me off a little.

Act 3 is a little unnecessary, but for me doesn't dampen the game that much. Although I didn't like the scene at the end with Gillian, Jamie, Mika and Katrina at the airport. I dunno, it just felt cheesy and over the top.

Snatcher is still a class game though. I wish I played it in its day when it was first released.

Henry Spencer wrote:Yay.

It's a far better ending than what we got for the MGS series (MGS4).
Pong has a better story than MGS4. :P
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by Snatcher42 »

A.G. wrote:1. Gillian STILL does not have his memory.
But knows what happened to him. And what the Snatchers are all about. That's important, imo. Granted, Act 3 is lacking in terms of gameplay, and in retrospect definitely feels "tacked on"... But 14 years ago, 12 years old and playing it for the first time... finding the Kermlin and all those revelations coming thick and fast on the heals of the shooting sequence adrenaline... It left me absolutely floored. Wouldn't change it for the world.

But then, you seem pretty convinced about this A.G., so why ask us?
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Re: Act 3 - Yay or Nay?

Post by el_ash »

Kerm wrote:
el_ash wrote:well I thought that Act 3 definatly was short, and lacked gameplay....
But the ending and warp-up of the story (for the most part) made it the BEST ending I had ever seen/experienced in a game!

Especially considering most games in general only gave you a "thank you for playing" message and then rolled the credits.
This is pretty much how I feel about act 3 too. Except I don't think it's the best ending ever, but still a very satisfaying ending.
Well at the time (1994/95) it was the BEST ending I had ever seen, I'm not sure were it would stand today if I were to make a list of the Best Game Endings....But it would definatly be on the list.

It doesn't surprise me that there would be more Hideo Kojima games than anything on that list :mrgreen:
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